Wisdom of Irene Ramsay – Page 2

What to Do When Your Buck Won’t by Irene Ramsay

If your buck won’t serve the cause is often dietary – the minerals in his tucker aren’t in balance. Copper, iodine and phosphorus and Vitamin A are all necessary for a working buck. One way to ginger him up is to give him kelp powder. This is often available in supermarkets these days and is easily obtainable in health shops. Stock food places which specialise in horses also stock it.

The dose for an adult buck is 4 teaspoons twice daily for one week – seven days – no longer or you could give him copper poisoning. I found the best way to give it was to mix it into a paste with a little Ketol (propylene glycol) and feed it to the buck off the spoon. The first few times would be a battle but after that the buck would get to like the taste and gobble it up. (My name was mud when the week was up). By this time the buck should be smelling of hearts and flowers with the lovelight in his eyes. He will be so eager to work you will be wondering if you should have done it.

For a buck kid 2 teaspoons twice daily for a week, and if he still isn’t ready and willing, trot him to the vet for a sperm test. If he is polled and both his parents were, he may be hermaphrodite even though he doesn’t look it. As well as the sperm test the vet will palpate his testicles and urethra.

It isn’t wise to feed legume hay to bucks because the calcium and oestrogen content may have a dire effect on fertility. I have found they do best on meadow hay and/or barley straw and oat straw. They need a bran and grain ration to keep the phosphorus level up, and need access to a good iodised salt lick at all times. If your water is hard, you may also have to save rainwater for your bucks to drink, if you have a problem with getting them revved up. Access to green feed should take care of the vitamin problem but it doesn’t hurt to check him for loose front teeth which should be removed, as they will stop him eating properly; a goat with loose teeth often suffers vitamin deficiencies, especially Vitamin A which is found in greatest quantities in carrots, and you can imagine munching carrots with loose teeth!

NEVER GIVE BRASSICAS or BEETS to your bucks as digesting them produces insoluble oxalate salts which may block the male urinary tract not just causing impotence and sterility, but a painful death. Some weeds such as oxalis and sheep’s sorrel do the same as they are also rich in insoluble oxalate salts.

Some seasons have a bad effect on the bucks’ libido. I remember having to boost an excellent buck one year because he was taking 20 minutes to psych himself up to mount a doe, and getting very frustrated and bolshie, to the doe and to me, in the process. Previous years he’d been an up-and-at-’em type who had the doe served and was on the way back to the buck paddock before the doe realised the deed had been done. A week of kelp put him right in short order – actually, I could have stopped after 4 days! I describe this situation as Borderline Impotence.

Borderline Impotence when the buck becomes violent with frustration is not to be tolerated because it is physically dangerous to all concerned. Hard though it may be to credit, a week of kelp powder to increase the bolshie buck’s libido will improve his temper no end. Suddenly he can DO IT without a lot of mental anguish and you and the doe get a lot less bruises.

– Irene Ramsay.
Click here for all the Wisdom of Irene Ramsay articles

Irene asked that I include her email address for anyone that has queries. Her email address is shown below in an image, you may also use this contact form.

I am acquainted with Irene Ramsay through the Holistic Goats list on Yahoo Groups. I read all of her posts as they are always full of wisdom and natural remedies for healing. I am honored that Irene Ramsay has agreed to allow me to publish some of her articles on my website. I hope they will be as helpful to you as they have been to me. Thanks, Irene! Please note that Irene lives in New Zealand and sometimes the items she recommends won’t be available in the US under the same name. Copyright 1974-2020 Irene Ramsay. All Rights Reserved. Do not copy without express permission of the author. Thank you. Please note that Irene lives in New Zealand and sometimes the items she recommends won’t be available in the US under the same name.

Choosing Your Buck Kid by Irene Ramsay

The buck is half the herd, we are told, and a lot has been written about choosing him through his milking background, etc. I don’t propose to cover that ground again. Over the years, one fact has repeatedly come to my notice. On every occasion when some delighted goat-keeper has been raving over the newly-acquired buck kid, which is to put his/her herd on the map, I have been treated to eulogies on the kid’s shoulders, legs, back, bone, pasterns, or whatever other part that breeder considers vital. When I inquire tactfully about the state of the kid’s genitals, the resultant gasp of stupefaction shows quite obviously that the owner has never even looked, and thinks I am rather crude for wanting to know.

Well, to put it crudely, NO BALLS, NO BUCK. I have seen beautiful buck kids, and bought one myself in the early days, all from reputable breeders, and one imported from Australia which had been inspected by vets as well, all of whom did not have what it takes between their back legs. I am certainly not blaming the breeders, because in each case the peculiarity had never occurred in their herds before, so they were unacquainted with the problem. But, having seen rather a lot of different types of abnormality, now, I feel qualified to give some pointers to identifying them, so that fewer people will find they have raised a buck kid who isn’t going to be any use to them after all.

BIRTH-DAY TEST
The first step is when a kid is born. Turn him on this back (when you are treating his cord, if you like) and check that he has two teats, one each side and slightly forward of the scrotum. If he has more than two teats, or one or both are double teats, or if he has no teats, bump him off. [Diagram 1]

His penis should be just behind the umbilical cord, usually about ½” (1cm) behind. If it is further back, bump him off – even if fertile, he would only be able to serve his first season (once he’s bigger, his penis wouldn’t reach the doe). [Diagram 11]

The tube running between the penis and scrotum, just under the skin, is called the urethra. Sometimes part of the urethra is exposed, that is, it is not covered with skin, and looks like a bubble. [Diagram 10] The kid will be infertile, so bump him off.

Now go to the scrotum itself. It should contain two testicles, which feel quite loose in the scrotum at this stage and can be moved round easily. Each has a cord running from it through the inguinal canal to the body cavity. This cord should feel long enough that you can let the testicles flop around between your fingers. If the testicles are held tight to the body, the cords are too short; he will be infertile, and probably has an inguinal hernia. (An experienced
doe will refuse to clean up, much less feed, a kid with an inguinal hernia; she is your best guide that something is wrong with him). Bump him off. [Diagrams 7 & 8]

If there is only one testicle in the scrotum (unilateral cryptorchid) bump him off. [Diagram 4]

He may be fertile but the fault is hereditary. With a vasectomy he could be used as a teaser. If there are no testicles in the scrotum (full cryptorchid) bump him off. [Diagram 5]

The tips of the testicles may be felt through the inguinal canal. He will not tease. If he has passed this test, feel each testicle in turn and see if it is possible to push it through into the body cavity. If you can feel one or both disappear quite clearly, he has a condition called ‘floating testicle’ and an inguinal hernia. The doe will refuse to mother him. Bump him off.

I have to say here that this type of condition can be treated surgically, but it is considered an ‘unethical’ operation by the veterinary profession. Some bucks have been kept, untreated, with this condition, and sired kids, but the condition is passed on to both male and female progeny, and the gut may at any time fall through the inguinal hernia, strangulate, and kill the animal with great agony. In a doe, because the udder is in the way of palpation, the strangulation appears to be a severe fatal colic. Both tight-cord and floating testicle kids, if undetected, are likely to be colicky and pot-bellied whatever method of rearing you use. If a buck kid is like this, check again to see if he does have anything wrong with his scrotum and testicles. If you are unsure about your findings on the kid’s scrotum (which you will be at your first attempt unless there is something drastically wrong) leave him for a week, and feel him again.

ONE WEEK OLD TEST
All the kids who have passed their birthday tests should be checked again in a week’s time. This time the testicles should be at least ½” long and ¼” thick, and will feel distinct from the cords. If they are smaller than this, he could have undersized testicles. If you are quite sure, bump him off; if not, give him another week and check again. If he still doesn’t feel big enough, compare with other kids the same age, and if you are sure, bump him off. [Diagram 9]

If one testicle is very much smaller than the other, bump him off. [Diagram 6]

Now check your kid when he is standing. A warm day is best, as the testicles will hang lower. If you could easily castrate him with an elastrator because the testicles dangle well, you know he is sound. It is not enough just to look, you must feel. [Diagram 2] If the cords feel wide apart but he still dangles, he is sound. [Diagram 3]

If the cords feel wide apart and tight to the body, or you cannot feel the cords at all, he is too tight and will be infertile. Bump him off. [Diagrams 7 & 8]

Feel along the urethra from the penis to the scrotum; it will be quite a firm ridge by now. It must run straight with no lumps, bumps, or wiggles. If it has a ‘knotty’ bit in it like a milk vein, along any of its length, including in the scrotum, the kid will be infertile. Bump him off.

I have once seen a kid whose bladder leaked into his scrotum. The scrotum was enlarged, and the kid could only urinate in spurts rather than a steady dribble. When the scrotum was squeezed, urine came out of the penis. Such a kid is infertile and the condition is fatal. As it can be a lingering death, the kid should be euthanased. If I was in any doubt about a buck kid’s genitals I would destroy him, and when the condition was new to me I would have a post-mortem done, out of curiosity.

SIX TO TEN WEEKS
By 6-10 weeks your buck kid should start spraying. Some start much younger. They may ride their companions at any age from 3 days on. They usually start to make buck noises at about 3 weeks. All this assumes that the buck kid has companions – kids of either sex, or lambs. If he is kept alone he may never do these things because he has not been stimulated. If he does have companions and does not act buckish, suspect that there is something wrong with him. Check his health first, and when the vet feels he is old enough (probably 4-6 months) have a sperm count done. Actually, apart from total cryptorchids, most infertile males are excessively sexy and for this reason are frequently kept as teasers.

Epididymitis or inflammation of the testicles occurs when the buck is producing sperm but his spermatic cords are blocked or incomplete due to hermaphroditism. The first indication may be oversized testicles or just that his wives are returning to service. Get a sperm test. If the buck kid you are doubtful about is your own breeding you can destroy him without much harm done, but as I said at the beginning, faulty bucks are often sold.

If you are unfortunate enough to buy one, the arrangement you come to with the breeder is over to you. Most breeders will offer to replace the following season, but this is not always practical for you. The breeder will appreciate a veterinary certificate to show the kid is a bad breeding proposition, and proof that he has been destroyed, castrated, or relegated to use as a teaser. (This last may require a vasectomy, depending on the actual fault). This is a courtesy especially if you are a great distance apart, and matters are being arranged by post.

Finally, I would advise anyone buying a buck kid from a distance, sight unseen, to choose either a disbudded kid or one with a horned parent. Then at least you will not have hermaphrodite factors to consider. Cryptorchids occur regardless of the horn factor. Extreme inbreeding also predisposes to abnormalities.

– Irene Ramsay.
Click here for all the Wisdom of Irene Ramsay articles

Irene asked that I include her email address for anyone that has queries. Her email address is shown below in an image, you may also use this contact form.

Irene Ramsay on Copper Deficiency

Symptoms of copper deficiency:
Coat is rough and starey, faded in coloured goats, and greyish in white goats. Goat holds on to old coat much longer than usual and when it falls out the goat may be almost naked for a week or so because the new hair is not coming through readily. Sunburn on the naked skin slows down hair growth still further.

Ribs and vertebrae stick out very noticeably as the goat carries no extra flesh. Where calcium intake is compromised by lack of copper, you may find knobs on the ends of the floating ribs and the points of the jaw. Fractures of even such solid bones as shoulderblades can occur.

The head looks too big for the body.

Leg bones look very fine and joints tend to be enlarged. Again this is lack of copper compromising calcium uptake. Goat walks cautiously and doesn’t want to jump on and off heights. Probably won’t play much either because the bones aren’t supporting it very well.

Erect-eared goats tend to carry them drooped to 20 minutes to 4 position, and head low, may be permanent frown – signs of permanent headache. I’ve never had Nubians so I don’t know what their ears do with copper deficiency – I would expect them to go bald round the edges, though, same as erect-ears often do.

Severe anaemia – check insides of eyelids. Cream is bad, grey is worse, and green is just about totally lacking in haemoglobin.

Worm count in my herd at its worst varied from nil to 7500 – the nil goat was sicker than the 7500, btw – most were about halfway between. Worm burden is uncontrollable in severe copper deficiency because the goat’s immune system is too far down to resist the little sods. Milk yields may disappear to nothing, though it’s surprising just how
long they stay in milk, even though looking like concentration camp inmates.

Depressed appetite.

Kids born with swayback (enzootic ataxia).

In really severe deficiency the animals may have chronic scours, sometimes of semi-digested food, because they haven’t enough blood and blood quality to make the gut work properly (luckily mine never reached that stage).

When most of these symptoms are present, you may then find bald tips to tails – my experience it’s one of the last symptoms to appear, and doesn’t always. Some of mine, the only decent hair left on them was the tuft on the tip of the tail.

As I wrote this off the top of my head, I may have missed a symptom or two, but these are enough to be going on with……….

The following letter was in reply to a vet whose colleague had seen some goats poisoned by copper treatment.

This sort of thing is what worries me when people want my copper regimen. It is meant for treating copper deficiency, and is at a level which will not cause toxicity in a deficient goat. Obviously, as your quote shows, it will cause toxic symptoms in goats which are not copper deficient. But trying to get it through people’s thick heads that the goats
must show several serious symptoms of copper deficiency before they start throwing copper about is very very difficult. It seems to be the fashion to think that a bald tail tip is copper deficiency, and in 99 cases out of 100, it’s nothing of the sort. A goat that is fat and shiny and eating and milking well is NOT copper deficient, however bald its tail – I’d be looking for a tail muncher.

I would want to be sure that the goat was exhibiting serious copper deficiency symptoms before giving copper. I do emphasise this to people, but have no control over how much of what I write is passed on to other people.

My dose rate for an adult dairy goat with copper deficiency is using 1% solution of copper sulfate, 20 mls twice daily for 7 days, rest 7 days, repeat 7 days, rest 7 days, 20 mls once daily for 7 days, rest 2 weeks, and repeat the 20 mls once daily for 7 days if necessary. Reason for the rest periods is to monitor the goats closely. If they don’t drop back in improvement and yield during the rest period, you stop dosing the extra copper. Strict record-keeping and observation is essential. So is not exceeding the correct dose. It is very hard to get through to people how invidious copper poisoning is. There’s very little between enough copper and too much, and a goat can tip over into toxicity without the handler realising it. Must say I have never seen discoloured urine in a copper poisoned goat myself, and
I’ve had to treat a few. Only one was mine, and I was using a high copper kelp powder on her, it was years before I developed the 1% solution method. Two of the others had been overdosed on high copper liquid seaweed. One had been accidentally exposed to Bordeaux mixture. This is the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone overdosing on what could have been my recipe. I can only keep emphasizing that people should not treat goats for copper deficiency unless they show several serious symptoms, and all the other things they have tried to correct the goats’ condition have failed.

– Irene Ramsay.

This article was originally published in New Zealand in 1980. Updated by Irene in January 2007.

Click here for all the Wisdom of Irene Ramsay articles

Irene asked that I include her email address for anyone that has queries. Her email address is shown below in an image, you may also use this contact form.

Remedying Copper Deficiency with Copper Sulfate

Irene Ramsay suggests making a 1% solution of copper sulfate:

“1 tablespoonful of crystals/powder to 3 litres of water makes a 1% solution. [U.S. Conversion = 1 tablespoon of crystals to 12 & 3/4 cups water] I always dissolve it in about half a litre of hot water, then add the rest, ‘cos it dissolves faster in hot water. Store in food grade plastic containers and be careful to label them Copper & Poison. I use plastic milk bottles or fruit juice bottles.”

Treatment as follows:

“Reason for my 1% solutions of copper and cobalt is that I’ve lived in areas marginal for these, but not completely deficient, so bolusing with copper would have been dangerous, IMO – I’ve had to deal with copper poisoning from ill-administered copper supplements. The 1% copper sulfate solution is given at a dose rate of 20 mls twice daily per adult dairy goat for 7 days. Rest 7 days, repeat 7 days, rest 2 weeks, repeat at half dose 7 days. This won’t poison them, and should be enough to bring them up to the level where the maintenance amount of copper in your mineral mix will keep them where they should be. The solution may have to be repeated if you have a long drought. Alternatively, when they are just starting to have that ‘look’ but aren’t actually sick with deficiency, you can add 2 mls of solution to each gallon of drinking water for a week, alternate weeks, for 4-6 weeks. “

“Copper is highly toxic if not needed, as it’s stored in the liver, and can cause severe liver damage if it’s not required. It is safe to treat for copper deficiency after the first month of pregnancy – I wouldn’t risk it earlier because it’s something no-one’s quite sure about, and why find out the hard way? Keep careful records while you do this, so you don’t overdose. Because dealing with copper poisoning is much harder than dealing with copper deficiency.”

I wanted to show some pictures of the copper sulfate that we purchased. It is the *right* stuff, despite all the dire warnings on the label. Click on the label pictures to see a much larger version which you can easily read.

Here is what the crystals look like:

Front label of the container:

Back label of the container:

Go here to read how to supply copper with Copasure Bolus.

Click here for all the Wisdom of Irene Ramsay articles

Irene asked that I include her email address for anyone that has queries. Her email address is shown below in an image, you may also use this contact form.

Click here for all the Wisdom of Irene Ramsay articles

Irene asked that I include her email address for anyone that has queries. Her email address is shown below in an image, you may also use this contact form.

Remedying Copper Deficiency with Copasure Bolus

Goats need a lot of copper, and the ones living in Arizona tend to be deficient. One of the most popular ways of administering extra copper is bolusing. Pat Coleby followers like to use Copper Sulfate which you can find at Home Depot or any type store along the same line. It is commonly used as root killer. I know many folks use it straight and their goats eat the blue crystals greedily, but I am 1) uncomfortable with this and 2) have actually offered the crystals to the goats and they won’t have anything to do with them.

Irene Ramsay has a method where she uses the Copper Sulfate diluted with water, and drenches the goats for a number of days. Eventually I plan to detail that method here.

In the meantime, we have been using Copasure for our copper supplement. See below for pictures which indicate copper deficiency in one of our does.

I have to say it’s my least favorite chore when it comes to the goats (yes, even disbudding since that’s only ONE time in their lives, lasts about 2 minutes total and you’re done forever!). They hate swallowing the boluses, they fight me and spit them out, chew them — it’s just a very physical job which I dread. Sometimes I get lucky on the second try and down it goes. More often than not I end up trying more times and sometimes have to use a second bolus (prepared especially for this possibility). I’ve yet to get the bolus into them on the first try. Once I even thought I had the bolus into our herd sire and went all the way into the house only to discover the bolus was STILL in the drenching gun!!

The Saanendoah site has a huge amount of information with regard to copper deficiency, you will definitely want to read more about it there.

The copper rods lose their effect after 4-5 months, so bolusing should technically be done at least every five months.

Here are the supplies we use for copper bolusing:

Copasure Bolus 12.5gm

As you can see, the bolus is very close to the size of a AA battery. Just about the same diameter and a bit shorter.

We purchased ours from Valley Vet $30.95 plus $5.00 handling (if your order is under $50), free shipping, no tax for Arizona. This container included a black nipple which holds the bolus so you can administer it with a drenching gun.

Image shows the drench gun tip with the black nipple attached and the bolus inserted into the black nipple.

Drench Gun

From Valley Vet. We bought this drenching gun to administer fluids and other medicines. $11.99.

“13” Gelatin Caps

From Valley Vet. 100 capsules in the pack. $12.15.

Item 17377. Gelatin Capsules
1 1/4″X1/2″ 1/8 oz

“000” Gelatin Caps

Found these at www.iherb.com. We bought some smaller caps for the smaller goats. We have one Nigerian Dwarf buck and I can’t imagine trying to get him to swallow the “13” capsules. $10.00 for 200 capsules, plus $4.00 s/h. If you find a better deal, let me know so I can post it here!

Postage Hanging Scale

I found this one on eBay $4.95 with free shipping on a Buy It Now auction. It weighs up to 100 grams, but of course I need it for weighing much less. Try using these keywords at eBay:

hanging pocket scale gram -digital

In the beginning we broke open the 12.5 gram bolus of Copasure, lined up the rods and divided them up into portions which we thought were appropriate. The dosing amount is 1 gram rods per 22 pounds of goat. So one of our does needed 6 grams Copasure. Take a bolus, open it and dump it out into a line. Divide the line of rods into half. Scoop that half back into the empty capsule. Cap it. Another of our does needs 8 grams Copasure, so I split the line of rods into 3 portions. Scooped 2 portions back into the empty capsule.

Also here are some measurements using smaller sized gelcaps:

4g – for 80-90# animals (Fill large half of #000 cap full, plus pinch or two in small half)
3.125g – for 60-70# animals (Fill large half of #000 cap to 1/8″ below top)
2.5g – for 50# animals (Fill large half of #00 cap)
2.08g – for 40-45# animals (Fill to 3/8″ below top of large half of #00 cap)
1.78g – for 35-40# animals (Fill to very top of large half of #0 cap)
1.56g – for 30-35# animals (Fill almost to top of large half of #0 cap)
1.25g – for 20-30# animals (Fill to top of large half of #1 cap)
.78g – for 15-20# animals (Fill to 1/4″ below top of large half of #1 cap)
.63g – for 10-15# animals (Fill almost to top of large half of #3 cap)

I finally decided for $5.00 I’d invest in a gram scale.

Find out how much each goat needs by taking a tape measure of the “heart girth” of the goat. Fiasco Farm gives a chart and explanation of how to take the measurement.

So you find your goat weighs 100 pounds. Take 100 and divide it by 22, which gives you 4.5 grams of rods for this goat. A 150 pound goat would need 6.8 grams (you can just round that up to 7 grams). I make up the boluses, write the goat’s name on a sandwich bag so I don’t lose track of which bolus belongs to who. I wonder how many hits I’m going to get on this page with people looking for ways to weigh and store illegal drugs with all this talk of baggies and grams and such? :-&

As I mentioned earlier, you may want to make up at least two boluses per goat, as they will fight and spit out the boluses. After one or two times spitting them out, I just rinse them off and try to get them back down into the goat, but after 3-4 times of trying the capsule begins to disintegrate and you have to use a new one. In the past, I only made up one bolus and ended up going all the way back into the house to make up a new one.

The bolus begins to disintegrate if you are using the drenching gun, as you are sucking up some water into the gun first, then putting the capsule in place. The theory is that when you squeeze the water into the goat’s mouth, they automatically swallow and then the capsule goes right down, easy! NOT. At least not for me, usually. According to the Saanendoah site I mentioned above, you should not allow the goats to chew the rods if you can help it. They may break open a capsule and you will have no choice in the matter, but don’t get the idea you can top-dress their daily ration as this will alter the rods (I take this would not be a good thing).

I suppose if your goat has a favorite treat that you know they swallow whole, you could bury the rods in that. One person mentioned dosing up a marshmallow. Another claims she pours the rods into corn syrup in a syringe and the goats suck it right down.

I hope this has helped you with using the Copasure bolus.

Starlene

This doe is black with white spots. You can see the hair on her flank is beginning to fade and turn reddish. Once she receives copper, the hair will turn black like the rest of her.